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D3Pixel

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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 84 total)
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  • D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Yeah, I noticed you can still see the triangulation if you switch to wireframe mode but it does not create actual edges like edit-mode does making it very useful.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Looking at the Verge example they use a shader to animate the atlas, maybe that is a requirement?

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    in reply to: Generated texture not working when exporting scene #18308
    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Just tested this on a cube with a “Generated” mapped texture as your example it displayed ok using Sneak Peak. Maybe something is odd with your mesh?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.
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    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I made a video showing the entire workflow and how to preserve normals without triangulating the mesh in edit mode.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I prefer my because I can keep 4 side poligons as much as possible for better shading.

    Using the Triangulate modifier by just adding it preserves the entire model, it keeps every 4 sided polygon in the viewport and in edit mode so hard surface modelling can continue, it also preserves normals whereas Triangulating in edit mode that you suggest actually triangulates the mesh there and then and destroys custom normals.
    This modifier automatically gets “applied” when you export so there is no need to apply it yourself. The additional bonus is that by just having it on a mesh shows you what the model would look like (without applying it) in verge.

    The rule here is never apply it as that WILL screw up the mesh. Because the Verge3D exporter sees the mesh as triangulated (because it applies modifiers on export) it must skip that process. The Blender triangulation modifier does a better job as it preserves the normals whereas the Verge3D exporter does not.

    Hard to explain? sorry.

    Please try it to see what I mean.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I posted an updated solution to this issue but it is not showing in the forum?

    Anyway, rather than triangulate the mesh which is destructive, just apply a Triangulate modifier and tick “Keep Normals” to solve custom normals and provide a WebGL WYSIWYG of the mesh between Blender and Verge3D. No need to apply it. Works great.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Hi Mikhail

    Thanks for the reply.

    I have looked at your method and although it helps it also makes the mesh unworkable due to having to triangulate. More complex geometry does not always work this way too and triangulated meshes can still look ok in Blender but render incorrectly in Verge.

    However, I have found a solution now that appears to fix custom normal exports.

    Workflow:

    1. Create Cyl, duplicate it for normal transfer later, hide duplicate
    2. Cut hole in Cyl, bevel, whatever you want.
    3. When finished with edits perform a normal transfers from copy in step #1 to fix all normal shading issues.
    4. Add a “Triangulate modifier” to the mesh and tick “Keep Normals” <– that is key
    5. Now Sneak Peak it and it will look the same as in Blender.

    This is also a non-destructive workflow and allows you to see what the model would look like in Verge without exporting.

    Note: Do not apply the Triangulate modifier, it will be applied on Verge export automatically thus preserving the mesh normals.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Thanks Yuri. I hope to sell WebGL as a part of my services and the Verge3D evaluation so far allows me to prototype faster than other solutions. I hope you find a way (or get Blender.org involved) to solve this soon.

    Cheers
    Geoff

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    To further back this up, If I export the mesh to FBX and run it through a three.js converter at https://blackthread.io/gltf-converter/ it also preserves normals and looks great so this must be possible in your pipeline?

    See attached image.

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    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Urgh, I give up. I have spent 5 days on this. :cry:

    I think that the Verge3D / Blender 2.8 gltf 2.0 exporter is ignoring custom normals.

    Workflow
    1. Create a cylinder 01
    2. Duplicate it and hide cylinder 02
    3. Punch a hole in cylinder 01
    4. This has normal issues like visible edge creases due to triangulation, quads etc and is expected at this point.
    5. To fix that, transfer normals from Cyl 2 to Cyl 1 to it looks perfect. Various ways to do this, I use MESHmachine stashes but you can do it manually using Data Transfer modifier.

    The object now has custom normals and looks clean in Eevee.

    Results:
    If I export this using Verge3D gltf exporter the custom normals are ignored and the resulting mesh is poor.

    If I import the Blend file into Unity, build a simple webgl project and compile it, the custom normals are preserved and the model looks as it should.

    possible conclusions:
    Blender or Verge’s version of the exporter is ignoring custom (vertex) normals.
    Unity preserves custom normals either via FBX conversion or through its own import algorithms and shows the webgl as it looks in Blender.

    Unity model import options:
    Mesh compression off
    Optimize mesh off
    Keep quads on
    Weld vertices on
    Normals: Import
    Normals mode: Area and angle weighted
    Smoothness Source: Prefer smoothing groups
    Tangents: Calculate Mikktspace

    This is a shame as fixing normals in Blender just for Verge takes ages and requires lots of additional edge loops and sneak peaks as you work.

    I have noticed that there are quite a few Blender bug reports about custom normals in early 2.8 branches of the Blender gLTF 2.0 exporter and these are still present when using the Blender exporter instead of Verge3D. I thought I could get around this by baking the normal maps but Blender Cycles would not bake the custom normals either.

    Could you please try exporting the attached Blend file to FBX/Max and then export via 3DS Max to see if it has the same shading issues?

    Thanks

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    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    With Blender 2.8 (edit mode, not the modifier) Edge split separates the edge by detaching it so if you split an edge around a quad then that quad face can be lifted off the mesh thus breaking the watertightness of a mesh. Also, when merging vertices in cleanup operations this will re-weld those loose edge vertices.

    I think you may be referring to Mark Sharp and Clear Sharp features for editing edges which works with Normal Auto Smooth.
    https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.80/modeling/meshes/editing/edges.html?

    I just discovered there is also a mesh->Normals->Split command that enables custom normals shading (with Auto Smooth) but disables the Angle limit, this does not break vertices and has a companion modifier called “Normal Edit” and seems to be for game designers. I will give this a play with tomorrow
    https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.80/modeling/meshes/structure.html#custom-split-normals

    Control N is a 2.7 hotkey. I think it is now Recalculate Outside / Inside in 2.8 (via Alt+N) but that rarely helps when trying to fix normals that do not shade well in Verge, it does help if you are trying to create transparent materials I found.

    As for the differences between Max and Blender, yes I see what you mean. Cheers.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    in reply to: Manager not starting #18208
    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    Ah great thanks Yuri

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    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I will try that too, thanks.

    Is 3DS Max better at this than Blender 2.8?

    I know max has assignable smoothing groups that Blender does not and a Unify Normals tool but my max subs ran out so can’t compare the two.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I will try edge split, cheers.

    I can solve it by creating a bevel with more than 1 segment, e.g. 3 and set the profile weight to 1.00 but of course this creates more geometry.

    I will try edge split too but often avoid splitting as it breaks a water tight mesh.

    Thanks for the help.

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    in reply to: Manager not starting #18182
    D3PixelD3Pixel
    Licensee

    I downloaded the 2.14.0 blender zip again and it is 6MB larger than the previous download, after extracting that it is working again.

    There is still no \pywin folder though.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by D3PixelD3Pixel.

    3D Animation and Web3D services - www.d3pixel.co.uk

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 84 total)